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Scales and the order in which to learn them

Music Theory
theletch  
11 Mar 2010 14:27 | Quote
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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As a complete rookie I have a question that may well be answered with "Whatever suits you" but I'll ask anyway. When learning scales is it more advantageous to learn all or most of the variations of a particular key or would one be better off learning the Major scale of each key and then start back with the first key in a different scale pattern? Not the best worded question probably but I'll attempt to clarify if it's needed. Thanks in advance.
Jeff
carlsnow  
11 Mar 2010 14:35 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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IMO
Start with F-Major ... (lowest tone before Open)


a lot of websites-etc and theory books will almost make ya feel like "it has to be C!" but thats a common misconception.
'C' is refereed to so often due to most theory being taught via Piano and with middle-C so easy a run in major, many books simply default to this from either ease or, lol, plain ole laziness.

but i disagree ... on the Guitar starting at F-Major makes the most sense to me (and many other git-teachers) as it is, as stated , the lowest tone barring open E, and there exists a whole other world of 'Open Scales' where you will find E :)

RAWK!
Cs


theletch  
11 Mar 2010 14:53 | Quote
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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Thanks, Carl. Next question would be once I've got the F-major down should I move on to another major or go to F chromatic, harmonic, etc. and have the F covered completely before moving on to C or G etc?
BodomBeachTerror  
11 Mar 2010 14:54 | Quote
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i would say trying to play in a different key each day, get used to playing around the neck
Schecter_player  
11 Mar 2010 23:12 | Quote
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i have nowhere near the experience of Carl, but i'd recommend learning G major, simply because so many popular songs are played in the key of G (and the relative minor E).

The beautiful thing about Guitar, is that when you learn a scale pattern in one key, you'll instantly know it in a handful of other keys. I'd say you should make sure you can play a major scale in all of the keys (starting on the low E) and then learn pentatonic (major & minor) scales, which are a staple of the guitar.

Long story short, learn 1 scale in a ton of keys, then learn new scale patterns and make sure you can play them in every key.
shredguitar17  
12 Mar 2010 13:19 | Quote
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Yes, agreed with Carl! Start with F ionian, then learn the five modes of the F ionan, then learn minor pentatonic and its five modes, and make sure you know the notes on your guitar! I cannot stress that enough, as it will make it EXTREMELY easier in the long run to match a solo over some chords, and when you get into Jazz and advanced stuff its pretty much needed (trust me, if you don't like it now, you will!)

If you need anything else, this site is here to help and has many great and intellegent people on it! Peace

:)
vincejonesiii  
12 Mar 2010 13:45 | Quote
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... i just did e minor and ... i know that the 3rd is the relative major.. so i just used that :D
Admiral  
14 Mar 2010 06:52 | Quote
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I started off with the minor pentatonic-->blues scale-->major scale
i usually learn patterns. Say for example you know the patterns of F major across the whole fretboard. The you just move 1 fret down and you are playing in Emajor. But you should be careful, not to get stuck to much in patterns and not knowing what to play like i used to do. And i would first really learn one scale, extensively use it and jam to songs with it before moving on to the next one. Thers no point in knowing 15 scales when you don't know how to use them.
guitarmastergod  
15 Mar 2010 21:18 | Quote
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
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i think F, C, G, and E major are the first scales to learn then work on modes. just my opinion though
gx1327  
16 Mar 2010 12:19 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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i'm curious why F? i understand that it's the lowest before open, but what significance does that have? my guitar teacher (who i only had for a couple of lessons - long story) had me doing scales at the B on the 7th fret. i don't have the time to go every week but when i've been playing scales at home i usually default to the 7th fret.

and as pointed out before, if you learn one scale you learn them all, so is there a significance to learning the F-major scale, or realistically can you learn ANY scale? (after all, ifyou can play B major you can also play F major)

carlsnow says:
'C' is refereed to so often due to most theory being taught via Piano and with middle-C so easy a run in major, many books simply default to this from either ease or, lol, plain ole laziness.


on saxophone it was G. but i don't know why.
BodomBeachTerror  
16 Mar 2010 12:20 | Quote
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perhaps because its the lowest down so its the hardest to play, so when you play the other scales they will seem easier?
carlsnow  
18 Mar 2010 08:22 | Quote
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BodomBeachTerror says:
perhaps because its the lowest down so its the hardest to play, so when you play the other scales they will seem easier?


BINGO!!!
+

It also utilizes, (w/out open-strings), the longest path between your first and last(accessible) Frets.


RAWK!
Cs


PS: Same approach can(should, IMO) be used for the 'CAGED' system, which, in F = 'EDCAG'
gx1327  
19 Mar 2010 07:30 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....... good thinking. and i guess starting at the 7th fret is probably the easiest because the distances are the closest without being TOO close
theletch  
19 Mar 2010 20:41 | Quote
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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Great info, guys, and glad that my post has generated good discussion for others. Seems that there are nearly as many opinions as there are players.
nullnaught  
6 Jun 2010 08:28 | Quote
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Start in C major. Why? No sharps to deal with. Then go to G major. Why? One sharp to deal with. Then D major has two. Ect. ect. Do you see a patern yet?
nullnaught  
6 Jun 2010 08:29 | Quote
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It acctually doesnt matter. But I like to do things in a particular order.
BodomBeachTerror  
6 Jun 2010 10:25 | Quote
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having no sharps helps with piano. buut in guitar it makes no difference at all
coleman  
6 Jun 2010 21:11 | Quote
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i does if you want to understand what your playing
Silas2342  
9 Nov 2016 15:23 | Quote
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I agree with Admiral. First I learned Minor Penatonic in A minor, and the five positions memorized. Then be able to play them in any key. I usually start with the position that is where the root note is on the E string, and go from there. After that the Blues scale is relatively easy. I was then taught the Natural scales, but Id probably go to the Major Penatonic after.
Rufus  
7 Dec 2016 12:30 | Quote
Joined: 07 Dec 2016
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I would just learn any major scale all up the neck. It doesn't really matter what one - how about G major?

Once you know that one you'll know all keys all up the neck. You'll also know all the church modes in all keys all the way up the neck once you know the theory behind modes.
Empirism  
7 Dec 2016 22:34 | Quote
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Silas2342 says:
First I learned Minor Penatonic in A minor, and the five positions memorized!


You could and want also think about what you play actually in those positions. Important positions to memorize, are imo 1, 3 and 5. Why? because, 2 is half of 1 and 3 and 4 is half of 3 and 5.

Rufus says:
Once you know that one you'll know all keys all up the neck!


all the major shapes you mean :)

Now its also good to notice, that if we take A minor scale for example from guitar scale tool, change it to c major and you notice that those are exactly same. why, because they contain exact same notes, here is good to look a bit to circle of fifths (that is absolutely fantastic thing) and think of it.

So if the key of the song or part is for C major, you can easily play A minor scale and vice versa without possibility to go wrong :).

You prolly know this, but just chitchattin for the people :D

Cheers!
Emp
Rufus  
12 Dec 2016 16:20 | Quote
Joined: 07 Dec 2016
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Empirism says:
Copy and Paste quote here!


No, I mean all the keys
Rufus  
12 Dec 2016 16:20 | Quote
Joined: 07 Dec 2016
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Empirism says:
all the major shapes you mean :)


No, I mean all the keys
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